The vicissitudes of a NON-group-think liberal?

+2 votes
Jul 9 in Politics & Government ✌ by TheOtherTink (21,199 points)

Liberal Alan Dershowitz correctly complains about the (Joseph) McCarthyism of the Left, and of course the lefty HuffPo is in denial. Hell hath no fury like progressive groupthink questioned.  :D

2 Answers

Rooster Jul 9

They're just hanging themselves with all this crap! I can't believe some of the things I read and see like this.

I also saw that Hillary is making moves to get the nomination in 2020! That will hang them for sure!

@ Rooster:

Well, their bench is awfully thin.  I was thinking Andrew Cuomo might give it a run, touting himself as "a Democrat with sense", but socialist Ocasio-Cortez knocking off high-ranking House Democrat Crowley in the primary might give him pause. :D

Virginia Jul 12

Sorry, Tink...I can't feel much sympathy for Alan Dershowitz at least based on this...he gets social snubs and complains to the press, calling it McCarthyism?

He's "winning the battle on Martha's Vineyard," and I am supposed to sympathize? Nope...I would just tell him go somewhere else for his vacation, get proper respect in this important social season...maybe he can go where the Trump supporters go!

Well, Virginia, if you'll pardon my saying so, it seems the Huffpo's intentions with its slanted article had exactly the desired effect on you: to pooh-pooh Dershowitz's social season problems among Martha's Vineyard's rich liberal elite, to the exclusion of his broader and much more significant point: namely, that as a more genuine liberal, he opposed the politicized impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton 20 years ago, just as he opposes the politicized special prosecutor team against Trump now. Dershowitz is being consistent with his principles, whereas the "liberals" he complains about are not.

Virginia Virginia Jul 12

Well Tink, that is a dimension to be considered...are you saying the Huff Post slanted this to the Martha's Vineyard stuff just to discredit Dershowitz?

* * *

I suppose I would want to hear Dershowitz himself make his own case then...if he truly is complaining of his ostracism as "McCarthyism," comparing his social snubbing to that, then he is too "snowflakey" for me.

I have myself been ostracized a lot for my views, socially and otherwise, I know what it feels like and how it can affect your sustenance...and not overly sympathetic with society whingers.

Yes, Virginia, I think discrediting Dershowitz was exactly what the HuffPo was up to in that piece, referring to him as "Trump Defender Dershowitz still bellyaching" in its headline.

And I think Dershowitz does make his case regarding his liberal consistency quite convincingly in that video clip, although the HuffPo made no written mention of that in its piece, concentrating almost exclusively on his "bellyaching".
Virginia Virginia Jul 13

Tink ima see if my computer can play the video...did not try it at first look...

* * *

Another Q, if you would not mind? Do you think the Huffington Post plays to working class people? 

I ask because that is EXACTLY the way to influence them. Working class is my own strong roots, and they are concerned with the basics of feeding/housing family, educating children, staying out of debt, lots of patriotism/freedom/justice etc...

Someone complaining about "Social snubbing," equating that with the very real tragedy of McCarthyism would be exactly the way to alienate it did me...I think you are indicating the complaining may have been remotely true but (purposely) taken out of context...?

* * *

You make an impressive point here, I did not even know this, your perspective much appreciated btw: "as a more genuine liberal, he opposed the politicized impeachment proceedings against Bill Clinton 20 years ago, just as he opposes the politicized special prosecutor team against Trump now. "

No, Virginia, I don't think the HuffPo or the Democratic party in general plays much to working people any more, except perhaps to government unions, on which they depend for donations. In return, these unions get a degree of job security for their members that is unknown in the private sector, not to mention their members receiving higher pay for the same work as their private counterparts... all very cozy.

But in general, the Democrats have moved to the dependency class for much of their support.  They do not want fewer people on welfare, food stamps, etc., but more, because it means more votes for them. And of course, that's why they favor open borders.

Hillary gave the show away in this clip, when she, with a smug little smile, told her audience "...we're gonna put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right Tim?", her later "out of context" excuses notwithstanding. A Kinsley gaffe.

Virginia Virginia Jul 14

Hmmm...had to google "Kinsley gaffe"...wondering if you meant Keynesian, but you were accurate, very useful term, arising from 1988, it turns out!

I recall when she made that comment, but had not seen it juxtaposed with her denial, rephrasing "no what REALLY I said was..." into a more reasonable statement which however was NOT what she said.

* * *

Interesting about your comments regarding dependency and the Democratic party...I have used inflation calculators to determine that my current income is still on the same order as it was in 1965, as a student at the University of Washington. At that time, however, I was independent; I could rent tiny apartment or at least a nice room in nice area, and buy all my own food, clothing.

Now, however, equivalent income to 1965, but I am dependent; the survival basics are unaffordable. And the dispensers of the subsidized food/shelter treat you in degrading, ignominious ways, just because they can. I am more resilient to this probably, because as you know my poverty was voluntary...but I am still evaluating the impact on people. And I don't even get food stamps; for that tiny shrinking food subsidy, that gives government huge power to go into your finances, access/control/destroy.

I am not convinced capitalism as such is the problem; i.e., if we had a magic economic system to go to, I have real doubts that would solve the problem, it may be something else...still pondering what...

Ah Tink, mebbe you an' me will solve the world's problems yet! ;)  :'(

Virginia, I think there is a lot of truth in what you said earlier, that people should just do the right thing.

I'm not sure why so many people have become so callous, maybe it has to do with life being too easy for the 'haves' relative to the 'have-nots', or maybe the steep decline of compassionate religion. :'(

Virginia Virginia Jul 18

Read and appreciated, Tink.

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