Japan surrenders 75 years ago, Aug 15, 1945

Question

The atomic bombs surely saved lives, both American and Japanese. as compared with those that would have been lost in an invasion.

See, in particular, 37:57, where horrific plans of gas attacks against cities are described.

Answer 1

I was going to post this

UK marks 75th anniversary of Victory over Japan Day

August 15 marks the 75th anniversary of the surrender of Japan, signifying the end of World War II. Senior members of the Royal Family will lead tributes to the veterans, with two minutes of silence planned for 11am local time.

Answer 2

They killed some people. Atomic bombs are more dangerous than then.

USSR could invade Japan and finish the WWII earlier.

Answer 3

If it just wasn't for some of their militaristic bushido code, they could have ended that war without the atomic bombs and even then, many still didn't want to surrender. I blame Tojo and some other Army big shots for the use of the bomb.

Well over a million casualties we would have had if we invaded Japan. People may complain now about us using those bombs but it seems like it was the only way to wake up the Emperor to stop that horrible war.

One of our campaigns about the war in the Pacific has it's last scenario as the invasion. Total bloodbath it would have been.

Comments

That coward Tojo sent millions of Japanese soldiers to their deaths under a code that he himself was not willing to follow.  He tried to commit suicide only when American soldiers came to arrest him after the occupation began.  Tojo bungled the attempt, trying to shoot himself in the heart, but missing.  He was hanged after he recovered and tried for war crimes.

Answer 4

Tink, at one time not so long ago, I accepted this rationale totally...but now with a newfound cynicism, I am also considering other interpretations of why the atomic bombs were used.

At minute 42:00, the video discusses the fact that Japanese envoys were making overtures for surrender. The U.S. did not accept because they were looking for unconditional surrender. However (not in this video), the terms the Japanese requested involved clemency for the emperor -- that to Japan, the parallel was like releasing Christ would have seemed to us.

And if the U.S. had been willing to shift from unconditional surrender to include clemency for the emperor, Japan would have surrendered much earlier, and quickly. Further, the real reason Truman administration wanted to use the bombs was to demonstrate to/threaten Russia with our American military superiority -- an attitude that led us into the horrors of the Cold War.

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I have not seen these ideas vetted by researchers/journalists in whom I have full confidence, but nevertheless less I am listening...have you encountered this, do you have opinions?

Comments

Yes, I've heard that argument about the atomic bomb, and also about the firebombings of German and Japanese cities, that these were warnings to the Soviets of what might happen to them if they didn't behave. The trouble with that theory is that the Soviets had not yet reneged on their pledges to allow free elections in eastern Europe, nor had they yet gone back to sponsoring strong Communist movements in western Europe. It was not until early 1949 that NATO was formed, once their postwar intentions were unmistakable.

There indeed were some diplomatic peace overtures by the Japanese, but the narration after 42:00 also mentions that military communications indicated that the militarists were going to "fight to the end," and not just to preserve the Emperor's throne; I think it mentions somewhere in the program that occupation of Japan by foreign troops was also unacceptable to them.

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Thank you Tink

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You're welcome, Virginia.

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As a followup to the causes of the Japanese surrender, here is a talk given by Freeman Dyson, where, starting at 9:40, he makes the case that the Japanese surrender was not because of the bombs, but rather was motivated by fear of Russian occupation of the Japanese homeland. Dyson goes on to say that Hirohito "didn't mention the bombs at all", but made reference to Emperor Meiji's acceptance of surrender by Japanese troops in Manchuria in 1895.

Well, I looked up Hirohito's surrender speech, and not only DOES he mention the bombs, he makes no mention of Meiji at all. The most that can be said of fear of Russian occupation is perhaps an oblique reference that "the general trends of the world have all turned against her [Japan's] interest."

As for the bombs, Hirohito explicitly said in his broadcast,

"Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.

Such being the case, how are we to save the millions of our subjects, or to atone ourselves before the hallowed spirits of our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why we have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the joint declaration of the powers."

https://pearlharborwarbirds.com/japanese-surrender-speech-emperor-hirohito/

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Appreciated, Tink -- I did not listen to Freeman Dyson, just accepting your observations...I did look at the Emperor's speech, however, it appears extremely well constructed. Open to vicissitudes of the translator, of course. (I just watched a video of the final phase of Herman Goering's life; he sent something to Hitler, asking about his wishes for Germany after his -- Hitler's -- death. And the secretary 'spun' the message to look like Goering was trying for a power grab!)

So, it was interesting to read the comments below this video -- apparently Hirohito was speaking in a classical form of Japanese, comparable to us listening to Shakespearean English...here is a paragraph I found intriguing, do you have comments on this? I always assumed Japan was empire-building...

"Indeed, we declared war on America and Britain out of our sincere desire to ensure Japan’s self- preservation and the stabilization of East Asia, it being far from our thought either to infringe upon the sovereignty of other nations or to embark upon territorial aggrandizement."

Not meaning to give you homework, just if you are interested!

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This was a complete lie, of course, which could only have been meant for internal consumption. I think the Japanese government had been telling the people all along that they were building the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere out of the goodness of their hearts.

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Hmmm...something we will never know, is whether the emperor believed his own lie...following a couple of threads, it does look as if he may have been closely controlled by the people around him. And, his life would have been quite sheltered. Although from what I saw, it does appear he may have taken control of the decision to surrender, on Allied terms...shortening the great cost to his people...

Have you encountered the idea that the pandemic is manufactured, created for nefarious purposes? My cousin has become totally convinced of that, we talked for a long time last night. I don't believe that, I think she is influenced by all the veterans with PTSD who have barricaded themselves, with arsenals, in the remote areas of Washington State, one of which is where she lives. But I thought I might ask your opinion before totally throwing the idea on the trash heap! 

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I have encountered the idea that the virus was released deliberately by the CCP, but I think not.

I give some credence to the story that the virus possibly escaped from a Chinese lab.

I give most credence to the story that the CCP deliberately did not warn the rest of the world, but instead tried to cover up the seriousness of the virus.

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Thanks Tink that is about where I am now also...although, my cousin is saying (I think) that evil forces in the USA have created the pandemic, for their own dastardly purposes of control and gain.