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Your Opinion Of The Health Care Plan Before The US Congress? If Outside USA, Are You Pleased With Your Health Care?

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Jul 15, 2017 in Politics & Government ✌ by Virginia (7,405 points)

The revised ObamaCare (TrumpCare) is currently before the Senate, and apparently enough moderate senators are against it that one more 'no' vote would kill it, and it is a very difficult quandary.

However, I have been reading that neither ObamaCare nor TrumpCare addresses the real problem in the USA, which is that health care is too expensive, relative to benefits. That we are the most expensive on Earth, something like 16-18% of GDP, but our quality relative to other countries is mediocre.

(Again, this relates to some reading I have done on capitalism; that the Drs./insurance/hospitals/drugs-and-equipment together constitute a monopoly, and thus health care has become an expensive commodity.)

* * *

What do you think about the USA health care dilemmas? If you are outside the USA, what is your experience with health care when you have needed it?

5 Answers

Kninjanin Jul 16, 2017
I visited dentists 9 months ago. They work in the state hospitals. They refused to look my teeth. I visited a private ordination and the dentists did not refuse to repair my teeth. 
In Serbia, healthcare was free during the communist era. Now, we need to pay doctors. 
Virginia Kninjanin Jul 16, 2017

Thank you, Kninjanin, that was difficult when the dentists in state hospitals would not even look at your teeth...

I will do some googling, perhaps, and learn more history of Serbia; I know there have been many changes, over the years! 

Rooster Jul 16, 2017

I've read some of the Care bills that have been proposed but could never finish reading them. S.O.S.! Myself? I have Kaiser insurance and they have always taken good care of me with quality results. I have to pay my co-payments and such but I haven;t had any need for Obama care or anything else. My plan is affordable and I like them. The care they gave me when I burned my leg was extremely good and very friendly. So, I have no real problem with it.

As far as Dental? Very expensive but very nice long lasting work that is far superior to old Eastern Bloc countries and Russia which are known for the worst dentistry in the world. The coroners have identified hundreds of bodies in cases due to Russian dental work. I'll pay more for quality.

Expensive? Yes but I'm happy with the quality of care I receive.

Virginia Rooster Jul 16, 2017

Rooster, I think Kaiser has been around for a while too, because I believe I had health care through them when I was in California in the Sixties! And it was fine, no problems at all. 

TheOtherTink Jul 16, 2017

I really don't know the particulars of what is in the latest version of the plan, except that the arch-conservatives don't like it because it doesn't go far enough away from Obamacare and the more moderate Republicans don't like it because it goes too far.

What I find most striking is that at least the Republicans have a diversity of opinion, while the Democrats are all in lockstep, no, No, NOAnd the latter nearly all use the same scripted language, aka the Party Line. :ermm:

Virginia TheOtherTink Jul 16, 2017

O'Tink, I was attempting to understand a little bit, and one problem the moderate Republican senators found is that the latest version does not adequately address pre-existing conditions...which the senators had committed to protect. Another was that many rural folk were left uncovered, people who formed Trump's base. So there was concern the next round of elections could end up a disaster for the Republicans.

Truthfully, I tend to agree with the idea of our health care as a profit-driven monopoly (with occasional beautiful and remarkable exceptions). As a former health care professional, I became disillusioned with the field as early as 1974!

TheOtherTink TheOtherTink Jul 16, 2017
Hi Virginia,

Quite obviously, something has to be done; things are a whole lot worse now than in 1974.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4638261/

According to this paper, health care spending doubled between 2000 and 2011. And it is estimated that by 2040, one in every three dollars spent in the US will be spent for health care:O
Virginia TheOtherTink Jul 17, 2017

(@ O'Tink) 2040...that is only 23 years away; that is scary. I just watched a fine video from Harvard Business School that fully acknowledged the failings of capitalism, and still felt we could work it out...the tremendous potential for prosperity and innovation...I was feeling encouraged. But we are still faced with both a medical industrial complex and a military industrial complex...there is lots of work...and here, as you have noted in other areas, education is key.

Marianne Jul 17, 2017

Health care has become a lucrative business - with sophisticated means, instruments and technologies, highly qualified and specialised professionals, increased safety and performance requirements, and - especially - medication.

But, formerly, a great number of aid, caring and charity services were secured by family members, engaged volunteers or domestic aids - with little or no salaries. But medicine and relief were, originally, more a vocation than a profession, and, with scientific research, specialised institutions, education, qualifications and development, depend(ed) much on solidarity, i.e. sponsors and on the collection of funds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_ethics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_medicine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_assistant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licensed_practical_nurse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmaceutical_industry


Maybe that medicine today is too sophisticated, and many measures to lower the increasing costs of the whole medical, paramedical and the related systems are focusing on symptoms (or superficial matters), instead of dealing with the very roots of the health proplems; i.e. the real needs of the patients themselves, and the related social, cultural, moral and environmental conflicts, unsustainabilities and failures.


Virginia Marianne Jul 17, 2017

Marianne, to me your answer seems insightful, full of insights; as usual. 

I especially appreciate your differentiation between medicine as a vocation and a profession. Also, the part about focusing on symptoms instead of the roots of the health problem. One of my conclusions in twenty years as a medical professional is that Western medicine does not have an understanding of healing, a viable philosophy of healing, if you will.

Marianne Marianne Jul 18, 2017

I am afraid that too big ambitions, stress, worries, frustrations and conflicts, along with too much competition, constant rush and the constant quest for an "obligatory, standardised happiness" are killing the very spirit of fair-play, excellence, open-mindedness, altruism - and of pleasure.


Virginia Marianne Jul 19, 2017

I had not thought of our lives in your terms of a constant quest for an obligatory, standardised happiness, Marianne, but that phrase certainly does ring true...:(

Marianne Marianne Jul 20, 2017

Yes, it has become a kind of duty, through education, surroundings, culture, beliefs, models and idols, social and fashion trends and rules, advertisement and propaganda - unhappy, low wage, weaker, less "educated", naive, poor, suffering, handicapped or sick people are (even now) considered as losers, who depend on the help of others and are - therefore - a burden for their families and for society. Where do they put the feelings, devotion and love? And if people are not happy with an imposed role or behaviour, which goes beyond duties and against their nature, they are the bad ones, if they are looking for another job.

I did neither agree with the hippy cultures (except for a few who really cared for their next and nature, and some were gifted artists and poets, but not seeking for success and wealth), as their so-called freedom was an illusion and, in many cases a way (or return) to primitive, patriarchal patterns, incompetent farming, drugs and very dubious philosophies, if remembering certain guru's and sect leader's practices, and they were no example for hygiene and ecology - lol.


Virginia Marianne Jul 20, 2017

Marianne, have you encountered the writing of Viktor Frankl, the Austrian psychiatrist and holocaust survivor? 

One of his ideas (which I liked very much) is that there can be a quality of nobility to despair, or suffering; that there is not necessarily something 'wrong' with you if you are unhappy, but rather a very reasonable response to the difficulties of life when you cannot change your circumstances.

Marianne Marianne Jul 20, 2017

No, I don't know much about him (and I read and compared more specific articles, findings, analyses and excerpts by various psychologists, but I forgot quite a few names), but he is right regarding unhappiness and circumstances, which cannot be controlled or predicted by a human - a bit like the "grain of sand in the cogs" in a place where sand is unusual. And we don't choose our native place, or our family, education, etc.

I'll have to do some more reading - lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl


Virginia Marianne Jul 20, 2017

Yes Marianne, you and I definitely must live to 1,000 years, just to take care of our reading lists! :P

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