+3 votes
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in Miscellaneous ♑ by

Pwll Du (meaning a black or dark pool or pit) was a village in Monmouthshire, Wales. It was declared a slum in 1960 and demolished in 1963. The main employment was provided by nearby limestone quarries and by the iron works in Blaenavon. The Pwll Du Tunnel from Blaenavon, once the longest horse-powered tramway in Britain, ended near the village. A pub and the former Welfare Hall, now a school's outdoor pursuits centre, are all that are left standing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwll_Du


This is very local to me.

2 Answers

+3 votes
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The interviewed people are heartbreakingly charming, SFA. :'(

It sounds to me like the interviewer is pronouncing Pwlldu as "Pulfdee"...?

There still is a Pwlldu Point that has nothing to do with the old village.

image

+3 votes
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SFA, it sounds like the name of the village Pwlldu is pronounced Poolf-dee? And the people do NOT want to leave...they have no bath, and must boil water for drinking, and she says it is healthier there! Although, I think her point was that Pwlldu is up higher, and the air is better fresher than the lowland place they were moving to?

I went to the YouTube link and copied the description the posters made, so people could see it, it's interesting:

"In 1963 the small hamlet of Pwlldu, near Blaenavon, was demolished. Originally a mining community, the mines had long since closed, and houses had fallen into a dilapidated state of repair, with no access to either running water or a sewerage system.

"The council took the decision to move residents down the valley to another village. Interviews with residents, one who had lived in the hamlet for over 70 years, show that even though conditions were harsh, not all wanted to leave. "The foundations of the houses can still be seen, and The Lamb Inn seen in the film is still open today. An interesting feature of Pwlldu is the 'Pwlldu Tunnel' which runs from Pwlldu to Blaenavon through the hillside. The tunnel was originally created in the late 18th Century and was one of a number of mines supplying iron and coal to Blaenavon Ironworks. In later years it was used as a tramroad tunnel. Story has it that the ladies of Pwlldu used to walk through the tunnel to do their shopping in Blaenavon!"
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Those that went to Govilon -it is definitely lower.Blaenavon isn’t.

I must see if Pwlldu tunnel has been explored by my  favourite you tubers!And if it hasn’t I must tell them about it!

They tell they have been there twice




https://www.pwllduadventurecentre.co.uk/

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SFA, I'm confused... Paul pronounces Pwlldu as "Fuldoo"...??? :ermm:

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Oh no! Even the faeries are getting confused now? The world is in trouble!!!

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Faerie language is so much easier... we just tinkle, with no confusing regional accents.

Um... when we speak, I mean, :blush:

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Mangling the pronunciation of Welsh place names is a Whitewick specialty.I have sent them phonetic pronunciations of one or two places they’ve been.

They need to learn the Welsh alphabet. Their R,Burr,eck! Which is how you pronounce A,B.C in Welsh.

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Yes, but the Whitewicks don't know how to pronounce R. They would say 'ah' instead of 'ar'. :D

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Sir Furry, I am SO glad you found SOLVED -- we learn things from you, including and especially about Wales! Other Tink seems to be picking up on Welsh quite nicely...wuddn't be surprised to learn that fairy tinkling has phonemes (or something) in common with Olde Welshe languaging...

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Was recommended to me when another place Tink and i were on got ruined.Amirite?Yes!:D

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Yes, Virginia, I signed up for lessons in Olde Welsh with Arglwyddes y Llyn (the Lady of the Lake), no less, at Avalon!   :)


image

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Yes, SFA, Youarerite!  :D

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Tink it's just breathtaking! Two beautiful, mythic languages...German and Welsh...I loved the image and I really believe that must be an authentic photo too...of Arglwyddes y Llyn...wonderful!

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Glad you liked the photo Virginia. :)

Oh, I learned the 4th letter in the Welsh alphabet... CH... pronounced like the German ch, only even more  gutteral!   :O  Not good during a covid epidemic. :D


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@Sir Furry, I need help... In "Arglwyddes y Llyn", Arglwyddes is Lady (arglwydd would be lord) y is the, and Llyn is Lake. Where is the "of"? Is there a hidden genitive declension that I'm missing?

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ch...ch...ch...Yup, the (guttural) spraying of phlegm around in 5-micron aerosolized droplets during a pandemic, prolly not the best idea...maybe the Welsh need to go to a regular 'd' for their 4th letter for a year or so! ;)

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And "LL" in Welsh also sounds something like a cat hissing. :ermm:


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...also found in languages such as Zulu, Navajo, Hmong...and Icelandic??? ...a voiceless, alveolar, lateral fricative sound...what is not to love about that...long live the Welsh LL...

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Here is more about the Welsh CH. :)


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arglwyddes y llyn-while ‘y’,pronounced ‘err’ or ‘yr’ before a vowel(and roll those’r’s) means’ the’ it is taken as read to also mean ‘of the’

The Welsh for of is ‘o’.It is also the Welsh for ‘from’

Arglwyddes o’r Llyn would be lady from/of  the lake but to me it just doesn’t look right.And I can’t really think of how to tell you to pronounce ‘o’.The best i can come up is to say ‘or’ but stop before saying the ‘r’.

W and y are vowels in Welsh.And certain letters from the English alphabet are absent.

image

‘J’ has crept in in recent years.

Amazing where this thread has gone.

Dylai fod gennym edafedd yn gyfan gwbl yn Gymraeg.

I’ll leave you  that as homework!:D

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The district of town i live in is

Llan-yr-afon

Or ‘the river village’ in English.

The neighbouring district is

Croesyceiliog( the cross of the cockerel)


And i hope you all know your de from your chwith!




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All this reminds me of a conversation among Virginia, Tink and Marianne some years back now...the idea that language can both reflect and contribute to forming diverse pattern(s) of thought. ...and that's a powerful reason to preserve languages, not to let them go extinct -- with these "learn-Welsh" videos, I can even feel my mind stretching into non-English thought patterns...

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Yeah-and the reason everyone in Wales-and indeed border areas that were once Welsh-doesn’t automatically speak Welsh-is government policy 

in the nineteenth century that set out to eradicate it.I shall post a couple of links.

The Treason of the Blue Books

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wales/entries/72d77f69-72a7-3626-9c19-469c91f45753

The Welsh Not

https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/wales/entries/72d77f69-72a7-3626-9c19-469c91f45753

In some schools the kid wearing the Welsh Not at the end of school was caned.A definite incentive to speak English!

!

Try this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/catchphrase/

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SFA, your district Llan-yr-afon...well I noticed the 'afon,' reminiscent of British AVON...so I looked it up and here is what Wikipedia says, this is intriguing! And btw, does LLan begin with that lateral, fricative, hissing 's' sound then?

The name "Avon" is a cognate of the Welsh word afon [ˈavɔn] "river", both being derived from the Common Brittonic abona, "river". "River Avon", therefore, literally means "River River"; several other English and Scottish rivers share the name.

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Llan-yes

And yes-Avon does come from Afon..But it gets pronounced incorrectly in English.It is Ave(as in have) on.

But it gets pronounced ave (as in grave) on.

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Guilty as to the long Ave as in grave, and now I have learned something, from now on it will be Av-on as in avenue - on!

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SFA -- are the Welsh considered to be an indigenous people? I do recall from one of your videos they were conquered 800 years ago (or something), and lots of castles build by the British conquerors...

...but that 'Treason of the Blue Books,' wasn't it 1846? ...that sounds like the centuries-old American white supremacy with the Native Americans and the African Americans! "

"I believe the proportion of illegitimate children...exceeds that in any other county in the kingdom. When the report was published it was scathing and sweeping in its findings. Welsh children ... were ignorant, dirty and badly motivated. Welsh women were not just lax in their morals - many of them being late home from chapel meetings!" Plus the Rebecca Riots sweeping around everywhere...sounds like our racial divisiveness...are the Welsh considered an inferior race?

N'kay now I go look at your other links... :)

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I think we like to think of ourselves as indigenous..there have been people here since there were people really but there were Romans, Normans latterly the English...so yeah...


The problem with that Blue Books report was the kids spoke Welsh.Knew little English.The inspectors asked them questions in English....which they struggled to answer.Quite deliberate of course...and the Welsh were portrayed as ignorant...and had to be dragged into 19th century speaking English.

It is a miracle the Welsh Language survived.


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Got it...ima google now, see if Welsh is considered one of the Romance languages (doubtful?), maybe Germanic, or maybe Scandinavian? Anyway, glad it survived, with the wyddwethLLns etc...

Wikipedia says Welsh is Celtic, along with Manx, Gaelic...

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Av-enue

A much better way of putting it.


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Sir Furry I am glad the Welsh language did survive, for some reason I have always just liked looking at it, I like the feeling it gives to the brain cells/neurons...and now learning about the Treason of the Blue Books, well that is just the same old same old, tired, oppressive mentality colonial stuff... "we have the right and the obligation to do this awful stuff to them because they are inferior, mentally and morally..."

And I did not know about that in Wales until now. Do you think it is gone in the modern times, is there still discrimination against the Welsh?  

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I don’t think so...we were given a vote on having an Assembly with devolved powers.We said yes.Only just!1997 that was.

There are Welsh Language schools in all areas with demand for them increasing.Welsh is a compulsory subject into the early years of High School.Adult Welsh classes are thriving.We have had a Welsh Language TV station for nearly forty years and a National Welsh Language radio station for longer.

There is a lot of rivalry with England but it’s friendly and we love beating England at rugby.There’s a game in late November.

Had I been writing this in the eighties when Government policies were not great for Wales my answer might have been different.Since then it’s been different.





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Non-great policies as recently as the '80's, and then a 1997 vote YES, but only just barely! Well Sir Furry it is truly lovely to learn the Welsh - English story has ended, is ending, well.

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@ SFA: "Dylai fod gennym edafedd yn gyfan gwbl yn Gymraeg."

Wait a minute, not so fast... I haven't learned enough Welsh yet!   :D

@ Virginia: The Welsh alphabet takes some getting used to... f is v, ff is f, ch and ll are like cat hisses, dd is a soft th, and there is no j, x or z. :ermm:

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An alphabet with TWO elements that sound like cat hisses...you know that's gotta be fine upstanding  good language!

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SFA, I just could not stop without exploring your homework -- and I found it, ty to Google translate!

"We should have a thread entirely in Welsh."

Sigh, the homework just illustrates my point, don't you think it is much nicer to look at 

"Dylai fod gennym edafedd yn gyfan gwbl yn Gymraeg"...?  rather than...

We should have a thread entirely in in Welsh.

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"TWO elements that sound like cat hisses..."

And the rolled r is something like a cat purring. :D

They should have a letter that's like a cat's meow. :D:D

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Diolch Pawb:D

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mae croeso i chi fy annwyl


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Thanks...I discovered this morning someone elsewhere thinks I’m Canadian!

...