I don't know if this Times story is true or not, but if it is, it would indeed be shocking.
On the other hand, the way the Times presents this story, it's full of editorializing, unnamed sources and obvious bias against Trump. If it had been an editorial, I would have said ok, that's their opinion, but to present it as factual news at this point is a disgrace to the profession. (Not that the Times is a stranger to such disgraces. In the pre-WW2 Stalin era, the Times had a Moscow bureau chief, Walter Duranty, that wrote one glowing "news" report after another, explaining how wonderful the Soviet Union was, no famines, no mass purges, etc. Many years later, the Times admitted the Duranty stories were bogus, but never sent back the Pulitzer prize Duranty had received for those stories.)
I saw a similar round-table discussion on CNN last night, moderated by Anderson Cooper. Practically NOTHING but hearsay, with the obvious purpose of undermining Trump.
Thank you, Tink...and, have you found a news source that is more nearly unbiased? I watched CNN for several months in early 2016, and it was clearly not well done. FOX news, however, I thought was even a little worse than CNN...
In the era of news magazines, say 1990 through 2010, I would read NEWSWEEK for a liberal perspective, US NEWS & WORLD REPORT for conservative, and TIME as the most unbiased. Is there a reliable source you like?
* * *
This is NOT the time in history for partisan politics...we need to get through these four years well.
I pretty much do what you do... read across the political spectrum and try to determine which report on any particular issue is the most factual, reasonable and credible.
And yes, I deplore the partisanship that tends to prevent agreement on anything. And there is something of a paradox with this polarization. While Democrats and Republicans may not agree on many political issues, there seems to be an understanding that THEY, together, form the Establishment, and that they don't want any outsider to rock that boat, no matter what their internal squabbles may be.
O'Tink, both you and I have doubts about Trump himself...but the fact that he does, for both established parties "rock the boat;" your observation of the paradox is well taken.
Marianne, I was able to open three of those links, ty very interesting...AND difficult to truly follow or figure out...
But the situation is not reassuring, that is for certain! I do recall in 1973 when President Nixon was firing folk for their role in the Watergate investigations, and apparently comparisons are being drawn? Your idea of the 'big interests pulling strings' is a real possibility I am guessing...we may never get the actual story.
That is what I am thinking too; many leaders (whether with good or bad intentions), who dared to contest certain hidden or known laws, or who did not comply with specific requirements from "highly influential groups", were discredited, crushed, bedeviled and/or politically ruined.
And I have the impression that Nixon's and his predecessor's practices and errors are being repeated ...
Marianne, that is a real concern - the discrediting, bedeviling...when you read all that, it makes me want to take another look because how much of it is just some power-mad scheme behind the scenes, trying to get rid of someone by ruining them politically?
I don't trust Trump, don't respect him; but all this bashing of him makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
LOL, Der Spiegel didn't bother very much to hide its editorial opinion in that article!
The icing on the cake was referring to Comey's firing as a "Nacht-und-Nebel-Aktion," by Trump, obviously suggesting Hitler's WW2 "Decree of Night and Fog" regarding treatment of captured saboteurs in occupied countries, notably France. Has Der Spiegel no shame?
Oh, wait... perhaps they were referring to Goethe's coining of the term
(How does the pianist play that, without his hand falling off?)
Modern parodies often make the Erlkoenig out as a child molester, but I think he is an allegory of childhood death, which was tragically all too common in Goethe's time.
And I find the following parody positively stupid, although the audience (and especially the YouTube comments) seemed to find it hilarious.
Oh...early childhood mortality...that could be, O'Tink. Families often lost half their children, even more. I recall reading...some mothers became unable to bond with their offspring, the pain of possibly losing another one was just too great. And this piece, the child is held safe and warm in his father's arms, but the death happens anyway.
Marianne, I checked on Goethe's dates...1749-1832, and I was amazed because I always think of him as MUCH more contemporary than that!
And yes, I did find the Wikipedia link interesting...now I wonder if this musical version of Der Erlkönig is the one by Schubert, the YouTube video does not specify...Schubert not one of my favourite classical composers, but still he has a special place in my heart.
Oh yes, these waves of romantism varied between English, German, French and other linguistic groups; for the English Romantic Movement, I would first think of Coleridge and his "Ancient Mariner".
Schiller's dramatic ballads remind of the troubled times, which awakened the "Romantic" and "Storm and Stress" waves - not to forget Pre-Romantism (Rousseau, for instance), which swept over Europe and even further. And the great artistic movements were also involved in revolutionary activities.
That is what's interesting with Focus; they are very critical, but look more at the different sides; the Spiegel, on the other hand, can be rather sharp.
I feel Trump is trying to hide something and Comey was getting too close to uncovering it. This has been my gut feeling since I heard about the termination.
Yes, it's possible, although it seemed to me Comey was something of a flake, the way he went back and forth about the Hillary emails. I think she would have fired him on day one, had she been elected.
I replied to you on your wall because I could not get this window to open. Maybe that virus has affected this computer and caused it to slow down. S-L-O-W-E-R than usual with my cheap system. Tech support just opened at 11:30. It is supposed to be immune to viruses but nothing is fool proof and I have always feared this in spite of being repeatedly told otherwise.
You can follow all the friends of your choice (click on the star at top on the right on the page of each chosen friend; the star turns yellow) and then, you can send your private messages.
I don't know if this Times story is true or not, but if it is, it would indeed be shocking.
On the other hand, the way the Times presents this story, it's full of editorializing, unnamed sources and obvious bias against Trump. If it had been an editorial, I would have said ok, that's their opinion, but to present it as factual news at this point is a disgrace to the profession. (Not that the Times is a stranger to such disgraces. In the pre-WW2 Stalin era, the Times had a Moscow bureau chief, Walter Duranty, that wrote one glowing "news" report after another, explaining how wonderful the Soviet Union was, no famines, no mass purges, etc. Many years later, the Times admitted the Duranty stories were bogus, but never sent back the Pulitzer prize Duranty had received for those stories.)
I saw a similar round-table discussion on CNN last night, moderated by Anderson Cooper. Practically NOTHING but hearsay, with the obvious purpose of undermining Trump.
Thank you, Tink...and, have you found a news source that is more nearly unbiased? I watched CNN for several months in early 2016, and it was clearly not well done. FOX news, however, I thought was even a little worse than CNN...
In the era of news magazines, say 1990 through 2010, I would read NEWSWEEK for a liberal perspective, US NEWS & WORLD REPORT for conservative, and TIME as the most unbiased. Is there a reliable source you like?
* * *
This is NOT the time in history for partisan politics...we need to get through these four years well.
@ Virginia,
I pretty much do what you do... read across the political spectrum and try to determine which report on any particular issue is the most factual, reasonable and credible.
And yes, I deplore the partisanship that tends to prevent agreement on anything. And there is something of a paradox with this polarization. While Democrats and Republicans may not agree on many political issues, there seems to be an understanding that THEY, together, form the Establishment, and that they don't want any outsider to rock that boat, no matter what their internal squabbles may be.
O'Tink, both you and I have doubts about Trump himself...but the fact that he does, for both established parties "rock the boat;" your observation of the paradox is well taken.
How about comparing the news from different sides, like Europe, for instance?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39874863
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/12/donald-trump-threatens-james-comey-fbi-tapes
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-comey-fired-8-things-that-actually-happened-after-a7733646.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-comey-idUSKBN1852MV
http://uk.businessinsider.com/trumps-firing-of-fbi-director-comey-has-huge-implications-for-stocks-2017-5?r=US&IR=T
For T(h)ink:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/us-praesident-donald-trump-feuert-fbi-direktor-james-comey-a-1146933.html
Personally, I think that there are fights between certain big interests behind parties and governments, who are "pulling the strings".
Marianne, I was able to open three of those links, ty very interesting...AND difficult to truly follow or figure out...
But the situation is not reassuring, that is for certain! I do recall in 1973 when President Nixon was firing folk for their role in the Watergate investigations, and apparently comparisons are being drawn? Your idea of the 'big interests pulling strings' is a real possibility I am guessing...we may never get the actual story.
@Virginia
That is what I am thinking too; many leaders (whether with good or bad intentions), who dared to contest certain hidden or known laws, or who did not comply with specific requirements from "highly influential groups", were discredited, crushed, bedeviled and/or politically ruined.
And I have the impression that Nixon's and his predecessor's practices and errors are being repeated ...
Marianne, that is a real concern - the discrediting, bedeviling...when you read all that, it makes me want to take another look because how much of it is just some power-mad scheme behind the scenes, trying to get rid of someone by ruining them politically?
I don't trust Trump, don't respect him; but all this bashing of him makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
@ Marianne:
LOL, Der Spiegel didn't bother very much to hide its editorial opinion in that article!
The icing on the cake was referring to Comey's firing as a "Nacht-und-Nebel-Aktion," by Trump, obviously suggesting Hitler's WW2 "Decree of Night and Fog" regarding treatment of captured saboteurs in occupied countries, notably France. Has Der Spiegel no shame?
Oh, wait... perhaps they were referring to Goethe's coining of the term
(How does the pianist play that, without his hand falling off?)
O'Tink, Der Erlkönig is haunting!
Yes, indeed it is, Virginia.
Modern parodies often make the Erlkoenig out as a child molester, but I think he is an allegory of childhood death, which was tragically all too common in Goethe's time.
And I find the following parody positively stupid, although the audience (and especially the YouTube comments) seemed to find it hilarious.
Oh...early childhood mortality...that could be, O'Tink. Families often lost half their children, even more. I recall reading...some mothers became unable to bond with their offspring, the pain of possibly losing another one was just too great. And this piece, the child is held safe and warm in his father's arms, but the death happens anyway.
@Virginia
True, and it looks much like the bashing of other leaders - everything goes much too far - whether idolatry or bedeviling.
And child mortality, at Goethe's time, was frequent.
@T(h)ink
Indeed, that looks much like a reference to the Erlking (or king of the alder):
This link will also be interesting for Virginia (comparison of German and English versions):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlk%C3%B6nig_(Goethe)
Marianne, I checked on Goethe's dates...1749-1832, and I was amazed because I always think of him as MUCH more contemporary than that!
And yes, I did find the Wikipedia link interesting...now I wonder if this musical version of Der Erlkönig is the one by Schubert, the YouTube video does not specify...Schubert not one of my favourite classical composers, but still he has a special place in my heart.
@Virginia
Yes, it is Schubert's music.
And the "Erlkönig" or "King of the Alder" is one of Goethe's most known ballad - a very haunting, dark episode.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Romanticism
Marianne, look what I found on the link you just posted...I know very little about a specifically Germanic romanticism, but isn't this fascinating?
"in contrast to the seriousness of English Romanticism, the German variety of Romanticism notably valued wit, humour, and beauty."
@T(h)ink
Lol - I think that you know the "Spiegel" and their sharp comments; but did you look into Focus?
http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/beben-in-washington-trump-feuert-fbi-chef-comey-rauswurf-erinnert-an-nixons-samstagabend-massaker_id_7110880.html
@Virginia
Oh yes, these waves of romantism varied between English, German, French and other linguistic groups; for the English Romantic Movement, I would first think of Coleridge and his "Ancient Mariner".
Schiller's dramatic ballads remind of the troubled times, which awakened the "Romantic" and "Storm and Stress" waves - not to forget Pre-Romantism (Rousseau, for instance), which swept over Europe and even further. And the great artistic movements were also involved in revolutionary activities.
Oh, and the Germans could be quite sarcastic too.
@ Marianne,
Yes, I saw the Focus article, and that one is much more balanced than the Spiegel piece.
That is what's interesting with Focus; they are very critical, but look more at the different sides; the Spiegel, on the other hand, can be rather sharp.
I feel Trump is trying to hide something and Comey was getting too close to uncovering it. This has been my gut feeling since I heard about the termination.
Thank you, Ladyhorse...glad to see you online, when you are able!
@ Ladyhorse,
Yes, it's possible, although it seemed to me Comey was something of a flake, the way he went back and forth about the Hillary emails. I think she would have fired him on day one, had she been elected.
I replied to you on your wall because I could not get this window to open. Maybe that virus has affected this computer and caused it to slow down. S-L-O-W-E-R than usual with my cheap system. Tech support just opened at 11:30. It is supposed to be immune to viruses but nothing is fool proof and I have always feared this in spite of being repeatedly told otherwise.
@ Ladyhorse,
LOL, if only ANYTHING were really immune!
Not the DNC, not the Pentagon, not the national grid, not the Russians or the Chinese.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/12/world/europe/uk-national-health-service-cyberattack.html?_r=0
Hello, Ladyhorse - good to see you participate.
Thank you Marianne but there are still some things I need to say in private...I need to get a PM to you...
@Ladyhorse
You can follow all the friends of your choice (click on the star at top on the right on the page of each chosen friend; the star turns yellow) and then, you can send your private messages.