Another skeleton in the NY Times' closet?

Question

 It seems that Adolph Ochs, publisher of the NY Times in the early 20th century, had strong ties to the Confederacy, and it is possible that the mosaics that bear a resemblance to Confederate flags in the Times Square subway station are not a coincidence.

https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2015/06/29/1917-stars-and-bars-on-subway-walls/?mcubz=3

The offending mosaics will be removed, even though the NYC Transit authorities say there was never any connection between them and the Confederacy.  Can't be too careful, you know. 

http://nypost.com/2017/08/17/mta-will-remake-tiles-that-look-like-confederate-flags-in-station/

Answer 1

I read yesterday that the fans want the statues and such replaced by Brittney Spears statues. What has this country come too ?

Comments

@ Rooster,

I think it's called decadence.

And then there is  the group Antifa, whose members dress up like fascists and act like fascists, but pretend they are anti-fascist.

Hmm... their choice of color scheme seems familiar too...

Answer 2

O'Tink, first of all I appreciate you (and others) posting these questions, so relevant for our time and giving us the opportunity to think through our own responses, in the company of diverse but courteous opinions.

So, my FIRST reaction was 'Oh REALLY now...' .

...however, upon reflection, we now have a POTUS who is both making equivocal statements and/or just taking his time to disavow racism. And in the process, possibly validating the white supremacists to become more active. Well, I worked with the Black Panthers in the 1960's, projects like their voter registration drive and their school lunches. And I NEVER want my opinion to be anything but very clear, and highly unequivocal.

I AM AGAINST RACISM.

In that climate, I would prolly say (sigh) yes, okay just to make it REALLY clear, let's take down the beautiful mosaics in Times Square subway station...but reluctantly...

Because with much grumbling I say this however, because otherwise I would prefer all the statues and such to remain in memoriam to a history that we have tragically endured, and ALL RACES courageously overcoming, as a nation as one people moving toward justice and freedom. 

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And btw, looking at the mosaics, I REALLY DOUBT they were intended to represent the Confederate flag; if I were going to make a mosaic of the rebel flag, I could certainly come a lot closer than that...

Comments

@ Virginia,

I also doubt that they were meant to be Confederate flags, but that doesn't stop the PC madness... they are going to be removed, lest anyone be 'offended'.

You can be sure, of course, that no one on the PC side of the issue is going to say a word about this centuries-old wall decoration found in Baghdad. That would be Islamophobic, ya know.

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O'Tink...it actually took me a moment here...the swastika! Well you prolly already aware...the swastika dates back K's of years, an ancient and profound, mystical symbol in Hindu, Buddhist, and Jain traditions. Even early Christians considered it as a possibility for their own symbol, I read! And clearly the swastika had a place in Islam, also...

Got commandeered by the Nazis, twisted to their own bizarre interpretation, just as they corrupted the profound thought of Nietzsche...

idk, this really makes me want to keep images like the classic subway tiles...let them somehow endure through all the madness...

  

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@ Virginia,

The swastika had long been adopted as a symbol of anti-Semitic groups, at least since the latter part of the 19th century.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-swastika

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O'Tink, perhaps my computer was not displaying the site correctly, but I could not see anything about the swastika used in anti-Semitism before the Nazis co-opted it...

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Virginia, here is the paragraph:

"German nationalists chose to use the swastika in the mid-19th century because it was associated with the Aryan race and Germanic history. At the end of the 19^th century, German nationalists used the symbol on periodicals and for the official emblem of the German Gymnasts’ League. By the 20^th century, it was a common symbol used in Germany to represent German nationalism and pride, for example, as the emblem for the Wandervogel, a German youth group. Swastikas also were used, however, in anti-Semitic periodicals."

Here is a more extensive reference (scroll back to the beginning of the chapter):

https://books.google.com/books?id=hLNUx6YK9RIC&pg=PA23&lpg=PA23&dq=swastika+gobineau&source=bl&ots=W1ld7Io9cP&sig=qRsSPeiQctL4acXj2WzG4X6xqfs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiz_qPE3fbVAhUL_4MKHS-ODyIQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=swastika%20gobineau&f=false

Answer 3

Oops - that doesn't look good; if you had to destroy all the ancient, cultural or historical monuments dedicated to historical legends, conflicts, revolutions, events, usurpations, or leaders, who would be considered, today, as criminals, tyrants, abusers, etc., not much would be left to reflect upon and learn from past errors.

Maybe that they ought to warn the visitors of such monuments ...

(may I smile a little bit?)

Comments

@ Marianne,

Yes, perhaps the warning should read, "Caution, not for immature, unthinking minds."

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Agree very much, Marianne!

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Yes, T(h)ink, indeed, but many "immature" or "irresponsible" minds might not be aware of their "lacking experience" - lol.

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Lol - Virginia, yes - now we would need an efficient way of warning ...

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@ Marianne,

Yes, that's often a problem; being so ignorant that one doesn't know one is ignorant.

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Lol - indeed, T(h)ink.

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Marianne, your comment about the immature minds being unaware of their lack of experience...that is very astute, I feel.

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Lol, Virginia - no need to be too offensive ...

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Indeed! However, it's the cause of much human suffering - when someone decided they have some kind of ultimate knowledge/awareness, and thus appropriates the 'right' to force their views on others.

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Yes, Virginia, forcing views or beliefs on others causes abuse, discrimination and cruelty.